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This is a mixture between a simple supernatural effect and how far it can be described logically, I think.
Object 101 - "Frvyo Jades" / Discussion
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This is the discussion related to the wiki page Object 101 - "Frvyo Jades".
Objects, alongside phenomena, always were the categories with the most potential. In particular, objects were a way to explain points of the universe by adding anomalous elements mankind could use to its advantage. However, far too frequently, objects were just restricted to their concept. Much like entities, they lacked the backstory as well as the implications of the object in the universe. Frankly, many objects, even with a good concept, failed because the concept wasn't exploited to its fullest. This made them feel bland and not linked to the universe. They usually needed someone to heavily develop it later on for the concept to feel remotely relevant, fixing the issue of the article itself that was how surface-level it was.
But in your case, you took a simple concept and developped everything that could be linked to it in order to make the page and each of its elements feel relevant.
The format of the description really makes it feel like an actual article from a website. We can find the context of the object, as well as a short explanation of its chemical nature. It's short, but it gives everything we want from a description page. Elements like the date of discovery or the origin of the name make it feel like something real with a context that makes sense, not just having an excuse for why it exists. The nature of the chemical is partially explained, enough to see it is an object of interest, yet the mystery subsists, as the Backrooms remain a difficult place to conduct research in. It makes sense in the broader universe. Not only that, but right off the start we see that the object is of some big interest to a faction of the site. This directly makes the object worthwhile to read, as it immediately shows an impact in the universe that makes the reader invested and eager to learn more.
The properties and theory sections also complement each other in a very clever way. "This strangely excludes humans but not entities that possess human biology or composition" is a very deep sentence that would potentially has huge repercussions in the universe about the philosophical humanity of some creatures of the Backrooms such as species like Moon Chimeras or The Macchina, but also individuals like The Blue Knight or Puzzle Maker. This simple fact is pleasantly developped in the next part. This shows the consequence of the existence of the object in the Backrooms. It bears importance and this makes it even more rooted in the universe, adding to the reality sense of it. This inert rock started debates and asked questions that are explained in the conclusion, developing the theory perfectly well. Each part works with each other to answer what was asked just minutes earlier. Everything is linked and therefore feels real, not only with itself but also with the rest of the world.
The use of the object isn't lackluster by any means as well. The reliability part presents how useful the object is in the daily life of a wanderer. The page doesn't simply explain how it works, it also shows its impact. It is not just a glowing rock. It has been and will continue to be used by people as a tool in the universe. This also opens the way to a lot of further development. The strength of a worldbuilding page is also how much its element can be used in later pages. Again, the parts work with each other, and the article feels complete and cohesive. From this read alone, I know I will use this in at least two of my different projects, and therefore expand the object even more with different epochs and factions. The page is complete, yet it sparks even more potential that can be used by anyone.
To conclude, the page excels at what it is aiming to do. Like the jades it represents, the article is an object that not only justifies and develops itself to spark initial interest but also shows its potential for future use in a website that rewards such pages. It's really a great example of a great execution of a simple concept, something that many older pages with as much potential unfortunately lacked.
Of course, the page could have explored more elements. The commonness of the item amongst wanderers, how it is manufactured, what kind of trading power it gives to the group, if it was used by older cultures in the past, or even elements about the raw rock in itself, like the method of excavation or examples of levels where it can be found. The thing that deserved the most developpement to me (and the only one that would really have been beneficial to the page as a whole, not just development but justification as well) was the reason why it emmited more light the more dangerous entities were. How is dangerosity measured exactly, since it can vary between user species? Why is it even based on danger, since it's not a defense mechanism? Are those different levels what is used to define the dangerosity of a creature in an objective way? And so on. But this doesn’t mean the page loses anything without it. The article shows its concept and its implications, but questions linger and can be explored and developed by other people. Such is the magic of a collaborative site. And I know I will develop at least some of those questions in the future because of how appealing the object is to me and to the world I wish to contribute to.
In conclusion, this is the kind of clinical page I wish to see on the site more. It does its job perfectly well and work on the wiki perfectly. Good job!
Perhaps one of the only few instances where a few paragraphs directed to an author was not for shredding the page to pieces /j ofc
About how Frvyo even reacts to the "danger" of an entity: I kept this unmentioned because of how absurd it would sound alongside everything.
Firstly, the main problem that I came across while writing this is "how can I explain that only humans aren't able to be detected by this thing in a very logical manner" and that was a very big problem and I rewrote it three to four times to come close to be as logical as it is right now.
The same problem arose when I was writing the illumination of the object itself, "how can this 'Frvyo' even determine what is dangerous or not?" I thought about it but the closest thing I got to was a "consciousness," which is pretty fucking insane for an anomalous substance contained within a rock to have. So I scrapped it and kept it unknown, who knows what kind of power influences Frvyo to know what is dangerous or not? It's up to the reader at that point, I think. Hope that explains a few things. :)
You, my friend and colleague, have earned all of the praise that your readers can muster!
And I, on the other hand, have absolutely no problem with affixing a consciousness to a rock, stone, gem or crystal. Problems only arise when one tries to attach "communication" between consciousness with wildly different properties . Rocks are millions upon millions of years old, with unique needs.
You deserve your +1.
Your friend and colleague,
Goerman
http://backrooms-wiki.wikidot.com/goerman
I don't think I mind it being included in your soon-to-be-published canon but I can't agree with this:
I would love to see this "mineral" originate in a different splinter of the multiverse with the opposite property: glowing in the presence of humans, to aid in the eradication of these vermin from places where Homo sapiens are not appreciated.
Kindly keep the object as it is and build from there without altering any of its effects that I have written. I appreciate your upvote!
Schulzenreich,
No problem! Of course, in the multiverse, it is everything, everywhere, all at once, and I had hoped that an alternate version of the mineral in an alternate universe would be perfect for my storyline, but author's wishes always come first. I apologize, my friend and colleague, and wish you well.
Your friend and colleague,
Goerman
http://backrooms-wiki.wikidot.com/goerman
Schulze, here's a genuine question I think brings up a very good point. What happens when the stones encounter entities that used to be human, either in part or whole? I'm talking about entities like wretches or partygoers, which are the result of humans being turned into something else via anomalous means.
It's good to see people still showing the Eternal Repository some love! I thought it was more or less dead with how little it's been used in recent times. Meanwhile I have custodianship over their GOI page, and I'm trying to figure out how to proceed in reviving that GOI at a later time. It'd be after some changes to the M.E.G. and B.N.T.G., in that order, though.
While not super important, one thing I liked about the original that isn't present here is the fact that the eye gems could have unique colors around certain unique entities. I know it may not fit in with your science and all, but when we're talking about unexplainable supernatural forces, trying to insert too much realism into the unique edge-cases can take away some of the charm something has. You not wanting us to expand on their behaviors takes away this possibility I would have loved to have explored…
Although, I suppose that worked out better for me, since I have an upcoming crystal object that has color-changing properties based on things like entities and locations as well (it's based on emotions, as well as different kinds of psychic/otherworldly energies emitted by various things, so it's not strictly Backrooms entities or anything like that), though it's a bit different in how it works, and why it changes color, as well as the effects it'll have dependent on said colors. I've had this object in the works since I joined two years ago now. The unique colors behavior does help distinguish our objects a little bit more. The color changing property of eye gems was what actually inspired the color-changing behavior, though it'll do enough new stuff to warrant being a separate thing. It'll be part of a level I'm making that'll have a similar emotion theme.
Speaking of changing their behaviors, I think the thing Robert was trying to say was that he wanted to have something similar in his tales, except it would be a different stone from a universe outside of the Backrooms that happens to have an opposite effect. It wouldn't really be Frvyo Jades anymore, nor would he be changing Frvyo Jade's behaviors. It would just be a similar, but completely different stone inspired by the behaviors of your object. He had a storyline he wanted to do that revolved around that idea to make the subtle war conflict of that canon more interesting. Given that his canon focuses on the multiverse, with differing versions of things across different universes, and unique rules to the canon, I don't really see why that can't exist. If it would have to be clarified that it's not your object, or changed to not be a stone, I'm sure he'd be fine doing that. I'm just making sure there's no misunderstandings there, since it sounded like you thought he wanted to change how your object behaves in his canon.
I ended up going way too in-depth over something so trivial.. Anyway, +1 from me!
Thank you for your upvote, here are my thoughts.
Paragraph 1
Schulze, here's a genuine question I think brings up a very good point. What happens when the stones encounter entities that used to be human, either in part or whole? I'm talking about entities like wretches or partygoers, which are the result of humans being turned into something else via anomalous means.
When Frvyo jades encounter entities that used to be human, the anomalous causes, properties, or innate traits that made that human into that specific entity will always be detected by Frvyo as it, as in Frvyo, can detect anything that originates from the Backrooms. However, since that entity still possesses human composition, the results from Frvyo jades will be skewed or innaccurate. If you read the page, I actually wrote about it:
…Though this may suggest the possibility for entities who possess human biology or composition to go undetected by the effects of Frvyo, any Backrooms origin overrules such.
Indeed, possessing human body parts may minimally skew the exact danger level of the entity, but Frvyo will always identify and recognize the innate nativeness of the entity possessing human composition, and as a result, they are able to be detected through Frvyo reflection.
~ Theories; last sentence of Paragraph 1, Paragraph 2
I don't know what happened to Partygoer Zero but I'm very certain whatever turned them to what they are now is an anomalous cause that originates from the Backrooms and therefore can be detected via Frvyo reflection. Although partially skewed by the fact that they still contain human composition despite their current appearance.
Paragraph 2
It's good to see people still showing the Eternal Repository some love! I thought it was more or less dead with how little it's been used in recent times. Meanwhile I have custodianship over their GOI page, and I'm trying to figure out how to proceed in reviving that GOI at a later time. It'd be after some changes to the M.E.G. and B.N.T.G., in that order, though.
I'm excited for your additions in the Eternal Repository.
Paragraph 3
While not super important, one thing I liked about the original that isn't present here is the fact that the eye gems could have unique colors around certain unique entities. I know it may not fit in with your science and all, but when we're talking about unexplainable supernatural forces, trying to insert too much realism into the unique edge-cases can take away some of the charm something has. You not wanting us to expand on their behaviors takes away this possibility I would have loved to have explored…
No. If you are such an avid believer to bring back the Eternal Repository, then this is not the right thinking. The Eternal Repository's purpose is to attain information and to be able to use that information as currency to trade with other groups of interest's valuable assets, whatever those may be. You also know that this page is written in the perspective of the Eternal Repository, from the pragmatic, formal, clinical scientists trying their bests to describe a supernatural rock that can determine how dangerous a thing is. And that is already almost too unnatural to be described logically. Instead, they talk about what they can explain logically and theorize in order to form a sensible page that any common person is able to understand without being exposed to wonderful fantasies. They're not going to turn into crazy fanatics trying to string two fantastical sentences in order to just write a page for a public, they want them to understand how it works in a logical way.
You do know, by reading the page, that the reason why it shines green is because it is a jade, right? The light source (which cannot change into any color, it is simply radiant energy) within the nephrite jade (Frvyo) illuminates from the green rock, hence it shines green. I'm not making this object a magical rock that shines ROYGBIV to specific entities, that is what exactly I avoided because it is so fantasy-like. What made you think that this naturally green rock can shine blue? Or yellow? Or red? Or orange? Or violet? With imagination that leads to fantasy again, I assume. I'm not going to charm readers into thinking it's a magical color-changing rock. The simple fact it shines green is because the rock is green. Simple as that.
Paragraph 4
Why the useless self-post here? I thought this was "your thoughts," not "your ideas." It is nice you were inspired by the previous page but going on a useless tangent about how you were able to manage what I couldn't (because of an actually logical reason, the rock is naturally green, it is a jade after all) is unnecessary.
Paragraph 5
Speaking of changing their behaviors, I think the thing Robert was trying to say was that he wanted to have something similar in his tales, except it would be a different stone from a universe outside of the Backrooms that happens to have an opposite effect.
What "opposite effect" exactly? If you want to respect the author's wishes, which is me, the real "opposite effect" in my eyes is that this random opposite rock can detect things originating outside the Backrooms but not within it. The original effect is to detect being that originate within the Backrooms but incapable of doing the same thing to beings that originate from outside the Backrooms. So that's the "opposite effect" you insist on.
Additionally, a user from the Backrooms server, Alba, suggested an interesting prospect that even Mr. Goerman seemed to like (because he reacted to it with a heart):
You know, I just saw this message by Goerman in the comments of O101:
I would love to see this "mineral" originate in a different splinter of the multiverse with the opposite property: glowing in the presence of humans, to aid in the eradication of these vermin from places where Homo sapiens are not appreciated.
…and Schulze's request to not alter his object.
Which leads me to this idea:
What if something remains the same throughout all multiverses, all possibilities? Take the wildest multiverse possible, and somehow, one event happens in the same exact precise order as it did in other worlds. Would be a fun phenomenon to write
~ Alba, from the Backrooms server; this is an actual copy of the message so you can search it for yourself
So yeah, what if some things just stay the same. I mean anything is impossible in the multiverse, is it not? Why can this not be a possibility too? Denying it is only a contradiction to the concept of "everything, everywhere, all at once."
It wouldn't really be Frvyo Jades anymore, nor would he be changing Frvyo Jade's behaviors. It would just be a similar, but completely different stone inspired by the behaviors of your object.
So a copy. This is just called taking inspiration from other works.
Given that his canon focuses on the multiverse, with differing versions of things across different universes, and unique rules to the canon, I don't really see why that can't exist.
Well that's also the same for the reason why I don't want it to be changed. As I have stated above and I will copy + paste it again "… what if some things just stay the same. I mean anything is impossible in the multiverse, is it not? Why can this not be a possibility too? Denying it is only a contradiction to the concept of 'everything, everywhere, all at once.'"
I hope I have explained your problems about the page, which you deemed to be important to bring up.
One last thing, my object has no regard for the soul. They are simply devices for detecting foreign from non-foreign and not about distinguishing humans from entities. But that's up to interpretation at that point and can be changed by whoever wishes to.
I wouldn't call the color-changing thing or the situation with Robert's ideas to be problems. I did genuinely miss what the part about partial human composition meant. (It's really late, so I probably am just tired)
With the multiverse canon stuff, he wanted a way to detect humans specifically, and now that I think about it, it's just the ones that don't glow, not counting obvious non-humanoid animals. By the way, just realized this object can be used to detect imposters, skin-stealers, and other human mimic- type creatures. And yes, I meant that opposite type of rock.
I don't know what Robert makes of the consistent thing. In his mind, he writes about universes that are completely different. One may have non-linear time, another might be more ethereal, and so on. I'm the one who likes writing with more "alternate timelines and universes" type stuff. His ideas get pretty out there.
As for the thoughts thing. It was what I was thinking at the time of posting that. Some things about the page, some things about half-related things. I tend to ramble on a lot.
You took a lot of time out of your day to answer that, and appreciate it.
You still brought up things like
I know it may not fit in with your science and all, but when we're talking about unexplainable supernatural forces, trying to insert too much realism into the unique edge-cases can take away some of the charm something has. You not wanting us to expand on their behaviors takes away this possibility I would have loved to have explored…
Which I cannot understand. What do you intend to say here? Why so insistent about expanding their behaviors when I am already final with my decision to not have it alter at all?
Additionally, if you were so tired, why make such an analysis like suggesting that this object can shine different colors on my page? When it is right there, flat out explained, that it's color green because of the jade?
Schulzenreich,
It pains me to see you, my friend and colleague, and my grandson, at odds over this…something that was originally settled, cordially, within moments. I apologize for this fracas.
Let's look at Alba's suggestion again:
"What if something remains the same throughout all multiverses, all possibilities? Take the wildest multiverse possible, and somehow, one event happens in the same exact precise order as it did in other worlds. Would be a fun phenomenon to write…" — Alba
So okay, then. Now we have TWO objects that are unique in the multiverse. Level 246, "Dinosaur Alley, has been described as the "sinkhole of the multiverse." The "Stygian Sea" on this level is not comprised of water. A closer inspection reveals what appears to be an endless ocean of living black sand. This isn't ordinary sand, either.
The Stygian Sea is the B.N.T.G. gold mine. These onyx particles are powerful sensory and emotional experiences from across the multiverse in crystallized form. Joy. Fear. Rage. Pain. You name it. Even things that we cannot yet name or understand. Holding a single crystal in the palm of one's hand releases that memory into the mind. The sensation lasts for the duration of contact with the flesh. It can be used over and over again, without end. The trade group painstakingly sorts these emotions and places the tiny bits into glass vials, manufacturing bottles of everlasting heaven or hell for eager customers.
Information, that is not verifiable, indicates that wanderers are being kidnapped and used as guinea pigs to categorize Stygian crystals. One can just imagine the horrendous effects that this wholesale testing would have on the human psyche.
To summarize: Stygian crystals are unique in the multiverse. Now we can include "Frvyo Jades," as well. The multiverse does not replicate the Backrooms, the Backrooms replicates the multiverse. Stygian crystals are unique because of the multiverse, while Frvyo Jades are unique because of the Backrooms. I have no problem making these two things Backrooms exclusive, for different reasons, each according to the wishes of their author. The answer was before us, all along. Peace.
Your friend and colleague,
Goerman
http://backrooms-wiki.wikidot.com/goerman
It was not at all my intention to be against what Cody said. In fact, I would have been open to suggestions, had it been done properly like in Praetor's post.
It seemed to me that the suggestions he brought up are the things he wanted to see, disregarding the developed material I wrote, instead of something that goes along the author's wishes, which you could probably understand, seasoned author that you are, Mr. Goerman.
And bringing up things that have already been explained in the page and using exhaustion as an excuse is not going to cut it for as actual suggestion, because he managed to have the energy to type those paragraphs but not into actually reading the page. It was indeed disrespectful to me that he managed to post such an extensive analysis without even realizing that the solutions to his problems are right there in the page, had he properly read it like any reader would.
You're treating what I say like I'm super deeply criticizing it. I'm not. I was just saying what was on my mind when I finished reading it. I really like it. Not every single thing in the page thread has to be 100% about the page. I like putting all my separate comments under one reply, separated into paragraphs.
Also, you're misunderstanding my intentions completely. Honestly the things I thought were extremely surface level, and more about the concept than any of the writing. I never said the clinical scientific stuff was bad. I was simply saying that you don't have to limit the concept to what the scientists are able to explain. An anomaly can just as easily do things that can't be scientifically explained with modern knowledge. I prefer coming up with a crazy cool idea, and then having the scientists explain it the best they are able. I like trying to find a logical explanation for a concept after I've created it, to help get a sense for the scientific perspective, if any can exist. I know this leads to the kind of thing that some people call "pseudo-scientific theories" in Robert's pages, but I personally am drawn to the Backrooms to the more anomalous, and I'd even say ethereal stuff. SCP is often like this - science trying to explain outright violations of the laws of science. Stuff based on known science isn't always as interesting to me nor does it always evoke the same sense of wonder in me, unless it hits sci-fi territory. I'm a huge fantasy and sci-fi guy. That's simply my personal preferences, and not a reflection of whether what you have is bad or good. It seems more people prefer the scientific stuff in this community than not anyway, from what I've seen.
For the colors thing I was just saying how it worked out that my future object now will stand out more. Sure I liked the fantasy aspect, but that's what will make my object take a different theme than the one you produced. I was merely giving my opinion of the original eye gems concept and sharing my excitement at the ideas of my own object in the works. I was rambling on with whatever I was thinking at the time. It was never meant to be any negative review. With what you created, I don't know how well that would even work well alongside the current behaviors. Technically there are different colors of jade with some specific variants, like brown, black, and so on, but the variant you based it off of is typically green. So that's up to your vision of it, and it made sense.
I meant no disrespect. I genuinely didn't process what that part meant the first time I read it. Getting zero hours of sleep that night absolutely did impair my cognitive functions. I had energy (I was drinking caffeine and trying to catch up on Backrooms stuff, since I didn't have time during the day to look at anything new), I was just making constant mistakes and struggled to process things, causing it take me like an hour to write that post. I literally had to edit my first message at least 20 times to fix errors and triple check everything. The brain's ability to think, and the brain's ability to comprehend what it reads, are handled by two completely different parts of the brain.
There is a very clear passive aggression and condescension in your replies. I'm not sure if you're aware of how it's coming off as. But you are saying a lot of things that makes it sound that way. I won't be returning any hard feelings, but I wanted to say that it is coming off incredibly harshly towards me. I don't want to escalate into argument. I want to just move on, but I don't want to leave this with any negative feelings in either direction. Can we please end this debate by simply agreeing that your page is good and does what it's trying to do, and move on? It's a genuinely good page. It's just that in my tired state, I decided to write without a filter on the topic. If I were to give it a proper crit on writing, I'd focus on entirely different things than the concept you so nicely made. And I'd still not have anything bad to say about it.
She fyrvo in my repository till I jade
/forum/t-16886062/object-101-frvyo-jades#post-